Oh the things you have to deal with when you're in LAM... But there seems to be a running theme lately involving crazy women with children. But here's an example of where the "Sean Brennan is evil" rumors come from.
This is an exchange that took place in the last 2 days through the LAM MySpace page presented for your amusement.
So, some guy sent the LAM MySpace page a link to his blogs and asked that I read them, saying that he had something about this "Loose Change" film that has all this conspiracy theory and provably false stuff about 9/11 (like missiles hitting the Pentagon, missile launchers on the planes that hit the WTC, planned demolition of the WTC, etc).
I responded by basically saying "Its great you're trying to educate people, keep up the good work but we don't support that film because it so easily disproved as false". He apparently wrote to an INSANE friend of his on MySpace and she sent this raging angry email asking why I didn't believe in this absurd film. Read this and laugh. It gets better as it goes on. Her real anger surfaces when I say I have no idea who she or her organization are (she actually states this). She also claims that LAM are volunteers in her organization.
After I'd blocked her from being able to contact the LAM MySpace page she sent an email from her Goth Help Us page saying that I'm a "whiner" and I'm ugly and that everyone hates me. That's all she said. That's how the story ends. She offered no response to the substance of my final email.
I have no idea where I whined to her, she was the one whining to me. And I'm sorry she thinks I'm ugly, but she's no prize herself. But the important thing is she didn't, and couldn't, respond in any way to what I'd said in my final response- she just spewed out childish insults and lies about me like a 2 year old. I mean, this woman 40 and likes to start childish online drama, has a kid, claims to be clairvoyant and be able to see the future, and is trying to pass herself off as a counselor to goth kids with mental issues. I think she needs to start with herself! Anyway here's the conversation. This first email came after I told her friend I didn't believe the Loose Change film:
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Angel of Light wrote:
>"Is there a reason why you are telling people that the Loose Change video is crap? Are you blind? Did you even watch it? Are you still able to use your own mind or has someone brainwashed you into thinking everything is still beautiful here?
Fine. Let's say you're right for the sake of argument. Go watch this video and tell me what you think then. You want truth? Then learn it. Educate yourself. Use your own free mind to seek it out. Knowledge is power.
video.google.com/videopla...amp;q=jfk2
I have too much respect for your music to let this issue go. But if in the end, if you still choose to live in a dream world, then so be it. Your music will simply be on my casualty list of stupid bands I'll never listen to again.
Rebecca"<
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A little bit rude, huh? Ok... Whatever. You hear from all kinds of crazy people when you're in a band, so no big thing. My response:
Yes I have seen these conspiracy films about no plane hitting the Pentagon, etc. This is what you're referring to, correct? I'm not saying 100% of what is implied (or inferred) in these films is false; there is some truth that there was a cover up about many things, bad planning, US involvement (in building up bin Laden, for example), etc. But most of the claims made in the film are outright silly.
That is why I said what I said (that Loose Change was a film that is easily debunked). I don't make claims or form opinions based on nothing. I'm sorry this upsets you so much and have no idea why it WOULD upset you so much, but I am FAR from living in a dream world- just read our blog for proof. However I don't believe in baseless conspiracy. The "facts" presented in that film were based on nothing, there is no true evidence that supports most of the claims made in the film. Just because the films states something in a believable or dramatic way doesn't mean its true. You must also present PROOF. Being skeptical is very important in finding out the truth.
The facts show this film "Loose Change" to be wild conspiracy. The video offers absolutely no evidence for its claims and does damage to the efforts of the people who are really searching for the truth by painting EVERYONE who despises Bush (and the republican neo-con world domination agenda) as wild conspiracy theorists. This HURTS our cause! There are far more disturbing reasons why 9/11 happened and it has nothing to do with bogus planned demolition or missiles hitting the Pentagon.
I watched the film and was amazed at how absolutely stupid some of the claims were (missile launchers on the planes that hit the World Trade Centers, denying fact about eye witness accounts of a plane hitting the Pentagon, absurd leaps of reality for absolutely no reason- in other words with no proof or basis in reality, etc).
I hardly see that demanding concrete proof before believing something warrants you calling us "stupid". The fact is that Loose Change can EASILY be proven to be baseless. That is why when asked I said I don't think Loose Change makes any valid points.
Please read this. Its pretty accurate and comes from Wikipedia.com. You can send your apologies after you've read this fully and understand it. ;)
Loose Change on Wikipedia
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So she writes back (this includes my response, her email is in italics):
Angel of Light wrote:
>"You know, after writing that to you initially I did go to your profile and was surprised that we actually agree on so many things. We are more aligned than I first realized. I still have my doubts about your belief in this though even though you make a compelling argument."<
Well, the fact is the film Loose Change can be easily debunked. As written in my last email, the film presents no facts, just speculation and ignores fact, as well. I don't doubt that there was criminal behavior on the part of our government (like criminal negligence, etc), however to make such far fetched speculation as made in that film only hurts our cause, which is to spread the truth about the criminal Bush regime. I almost think that films like this were released by pro-Bush people in order to make our side seem "wacky"- like a disinformation campaign waged to undermine our real concerns with our government, which are far more troubling than the sci-fi premise presented in Loose Change. I mean, abducting whole plane-loads of people (why not just fly an empty plane into a building, so much easier), missile launchers on airliners that were bound to be highly photographed, far-fetched speculation about planned demolition that actually requires TONS of works before-hand that residents of the building would have noticed, etc. There are so many false "facts" present and the general theories and speculation presented in the film really makes NO sense at all. Therefor, embracing a film like this makes our side's argument weaker because it can all be easily debunked with logic an facts. Again, I'm not saying that Bush isn't a criminal, he is, but the theories in the film make no sense.
>"Let's break this down.....I have seen Loose Change several times. Never do I remember them saying a plane landed in Cleveland. I am confused on where the author got that info. Now I will watch it again to try to find out where he is getting that from. The lightpoles are irrelevant in themselves being knocked down. It was the positioning in HOW they were knocked down. They were laying as if they fell backwards from the Pentagon, not laying forwards as if a plane or whatever had hit them."<
Again- there were hundreds of witnesses that saw a jet hit the Pentagon.
>"Yes they break easily. I've had my own run in with a light pole and it fell in the direction in which my car slammed into it. Another question I have is this....the people watching the video in the hotel right after it happened. You know, the videocam on top of the hotel. How could the FBI show up there so quickly to retrieve it? Their office was just plowed into by something.....yet the FBI was at that hotel in a few minutes? That is illogical. A disaster happening takes over common sense. *I* can only conclude they knew about it ahead of time and had planned for such an event. There are other specific things to address, but we can go head to head at another time if you wish. :)"<
The FBI is everywhere. I've seen car accidents occur and cops appear seemingly out of nowhere to block off traffic etc, and I hadn't seen a cop all day long. Its not real hard to imagine large numbers of FBI agents being around Washington DC and going into a frenzy when the Pentagon is hit by a jumbo jet on purpose. Besides, being that so many points presented in this film are either false or misrepresented, I don't know how accurate that story is.
>"Call me crazy...I don't care. I'm just a single mom of a 4 year old son...I live in the midwest, but I am farrrrr from stupid. My parents raised me to think with my own brain and not just easily accept the shit this country spoon feeds us as truth. The bottom line, is no matter who's right about any of this doesn't matter. The fact that there are very basic questions that this government refuses to answer is ludicrous. You could have 50 people on both sides of this give compelling evidence as to why the other side is wrong. Court cases see this every day. "Experts" on both sides completely contradicting each other. I personally think a humorists view on anything is merely opinion."<
Actually I don't' think the pro-Bush side can give a convincing argument at all. The 9/11 Commission report found that the Bush administration fucked up, and badly. So many facts prove that Bush mishandled this whole thing, was in business with the bin Ladens, etc. The truth is far more troubling than speculation.
>"you are right on one thing though...I need to research this more thoroughly from many points of view. Thank you for the inspiration."<
Well, I don't think you need to view many "points of view". You need to view fact, that's all.
>"Did you watch the video on JFK? I am curious to know your opinion on it. By the way, who am I speaking with? It would be nice to know."<
Sorry, no I haven't seen that one.
>"And for the record, I do NOT broadcast my views of this stuff on Goth Help Us (I am president and founder). My organization is built on helping people, not breaking them down by my rabble rousing. People that are hungry or are in pain could care less about what happened on 911. I started GHU to bring goths together to do positive things and to try to help them climb out of their depression by doing so. Call me a Pollyanna, but this thing has totally taken off and I refuse to allow general society to dictate to me what goths are or are not. You are one of our volunteers...not sure if you realize that, but I hope you're there because you want to help and didn't just add us randomly. Just to make sure, please check us out. www.myspace.com/gothhelpus www.gothhelpus.org I just want to make sure you are truly with us. If not, please delete us."<
I'm not sure I understand. I'm "where" exactly? Actually I've never heard of "Goth help us" before and we don't add people on MySpace (we only accept add requests). You must have added us if we're MySpace "friends". And we haven't volunteered for anything. This is simply a band profile which is normally handled by my friend (though I, Sean, decided to respond to your email yesterday- I usually respond to the political stuff if I have time). Can you explain what you mean by we're "volunteers"?
Sean
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So she writes back again (this includes my final response, her email is in italics):
Angel of Light wrote:
>"Reading what all you wrote was interesting to me, although I disliked the snide comments you wrote in an obviously sarcastic way. Your arrogancy and automatic assumption that I have NOT checked facts pisses me off.""<
Rebecca, I made no snide comments and tried to be very nice, actually. You were the one who wrote LAM a rude email out of nowhere, and YOU were the one who stated I didn't know the facts! Don't you remember? The REASON I have been emphasizing the fact that I don't believe baseless conspiracy is because you attacked me to begin with by saying that *I* was uninformed. So by your measuring stick YOU'RE the arrogant one. Not me. All I did was reply to your rude attack by stating that I research things before I make my mind up, and I use PROVABLE truth and logic to form opinions.
I think you're being very hypocritical.
Anyone else would have told you to get lost (in much harsher terms), trust me, but I tried to explain my point of view to you for the reasons I expressed in my previous email (it hurts the liberal cause to be publicizing provably false and illogical conspiracy theory). And I was in no way attempting to be arrogant or insulting, nor did I claim you didn't check your facts (I simply said that the film Loose Change is easily debunked and this is why I told your friend that I don't support that film. YOU are the one who attacked me for not believing a silly film with no basis in reality! YOU were the one who, out of nowhere, claimed *I* was uninformed. Yet you cannot prove ONE "fact" in Loose Change to be true. Why? Because its all SPECULATION and FALSEHOODS. I, on the other hand, can provide you with proof that there were hundreds of witnesses to the plane hitting the Pentagon for example, or proof about architecture that explains building collapses, etc, all of which debunk some central claims in Loose Change. So why are you being so rude, arrogant and mean?)
>"But what REALLY upsets me, is you don't even know who Goth Help Us is, yet you accept a friends request and blame it on a friend doing it, then we simply get lost in your masses of "friends" and now you wonder what we're about?"<
Blame a friend? What?! Um... Ok, to explain again- this is a BUSINESS account for the band London After Midnight. LAM has over 30,000 "friends" here. We don't add anyone, they contacted us because I don't like to spam people or bug them if they aren't interested. So that's the policy with this page. I don't even normally manage the page, my friend does it because I just don't have the time. I do not personally know any of the 30,000 people on LAM's list except about 3 (also bands or music acts). I don't make "friends" online, on MySpace. Its common knowledge to anyone who knows me and LAM fans as well that I despise MySpace, being that it is so obsessed with image, amassing friends, and generating compliments rather than meaningful dialog- in other words, its all about fulfilling ego. Now your ego is bruised being that I don't know what your organization is. Wow, who'da thunk it? The fact is that you really shouldn't be stunned that people don't know you. That defines arrogance. (in contrast, standing up to someone who insults you for no reason does NOT define arrogance). This is why the LAM MySpace page directs everyone to the LAM Online Community, a place where deeper conversation can take place.
>"I just wonder how many of YOUR friends merely let you hang out on their friends list because you make them feel cool, yet they never listen to your music nor buy your music. You are NOT on my friends list, simply because I am actually friends with the people on mine. I use no one."<
I couldn't care less who does what on MySpace. Its an absurd website and the ONLY good thing about it is that it gives bands and film makers some exposure.
>"I guess that is why I'm stunned you don't even know who we are."<
Do you know my mother? Why not? I'm STUNNED you don't know my mother!!!! Now- doesn't that sound absurd? Why would you know who my mother is? You wouldn't because you've never had an opportunity to meet her. Same with you- I've never heard of your organization before. I am stunned that you call ME arrogant yet you act like I should know who you are. Jesus! Pot kettle black! Listen, as clearly stated on the MySpace page *I normally DON'T USE MYSPACE*. I only ever respond to some messages that are political in nature, like yours, and that RARELY ever happens. So I am also STUNNED that you added LAM but didn't bother to read our page or "get to know" LAM before you added LAM (as you claim you do).
>"I assume people actually take the time to find out who we are before accepting us as friends."<
See above.
Again- this is a band account. Not a personal account. I don't have nor would I ever use a personal account on MySpace. This MySpace page CLEARLY STATES that you cannot reach me (normally) through here, that the band won't read the email sent to this account. So why didn't you know that? Didn't YOU bother to read my page before you added LAM?! I guess not. So why not condemn yourself?
Again- if I were to personally get to know each person who applies to be friends on MySpace I'd spend all day doing so and have no life. As it is the person who manages this page for me (or myself) has to spend well over 1 hour per day accepting and thanking people, one by one, for asking to be "friends" with LAM. That is more than most other bands do. And that is ALL that can be expected- unless you think I should drive to each person's house and hand deliver candy and flowers as well. (THAT was sarcasm)
>"So who ARE we? We are Goth Help Us, a global organization of goths who are out to serve humanity. We organize blood drives, food drives, and do events where the proceeds go to darker themed charities like Suicide Awareness and Rape Prevention, Child Abuse Prevention, etc. We're still relatively new, but the organization has exploded with interest. The underlying reason I started this is to save goths lives and to try to make them feel part of something. We get them off of their depressed butts, out of their homes, and helping their fellow man. The more they help, the less depression they feel. Helping others has given them hope again. Our measure of success is guided by a different ruler of sorts. Financially we could be better off, but 6 kids have decided to live again. SIX. Ever hear of the butterfly effect? Those 6 kids keep me doing what I'm doing. If you want to know more, you can visit our website or go listen to my radio interview. It's blogged on my profile. I personally stand for peace, light, truth, and love and it consumes me. I may not have the best tact in the world, but I try."<
For someone who stands for peace and truth you're doing your best to start a fight with me, and for absolutely no reason, and you're doing your best to deny truth. Its very nice that you want to help people in need- LAM also does such work in a very unofficial (and smaller) capacity and has made similar accomplishments over the years, helping troubled kids. (In fact here's an email sent to LAM's MySpace page today: "huge huge fan..you guys are so fucking insperational please add me. with out you guys i would be dead.") ;)
So I applaud your efforts. Good luck.
But I must ask: do you have a degree or any training in providing mental help to people? Are you a 501(c)(3) certified organization? To be really effective one should have training (I studied general psychology and adolescent psychology for many years, myself).
Anyway- you stated in your last email that LAM were volunteers for your organization. Why would you say such a thing when we've never even heard of you?
>"As for the topic at hand, I think it's best that we agree to disagree. I cannot vouch the validity of anything that Wikipedia says. It is easily alterable."<
The point is you can go and research this yourself and find it to be true. Also, you can watch that film, Loose Change, and EASILY debunk it. Why? Because it is NOTHING but speculation. There is NO evidence presented, there are no valid "footnotes" that enable you to independently verify the claims made in the film. And the fact that the film outright fabricates "facts" should be enough to make you leery of the other claims in the film. Why trust it when the film lies? Because you WANT to believe some deep crazy conspiracy, that's why. Look, there is no doubt Bush and his neo-con handlers are out to dominate the world's oil supplies, being that we're VERY quickly running out of oil (and the only super power is the power that controls the oil). Bush was very happy to have a war in the middle east in order to try and fabricate a reason to occupy Iraq and elsewhere. But to be so religiously fanatic about this silly film that is so illogical is very odd.
>"The thing that truly amazes me though, is that I try in my last letter to resolve this issue and you attack me with sarcasm."<
I didn't attack you at all! I was trying to diffuse your obvious very bizarre anger and allow you to see why I said I didn't believe Loose Change to be believable. Why do you fabricate drama where none exists?
>"*sighs* As for the plane load of people disappearing, I don't know. Maybe you saw the 2nd edition of Loose Change which I did not. That sounds ridiculous, so maybe you're right on that point."<
You're avoiding the point- The point is that they say that a missile hit the Pentagon rather than a plane. So then what happened to that plane and all the people on board? Regardless of which version of the film you saw, this is a main premise of this silly Loose Change film. So they imply that rather than fly an empty plane into the pentagon, that Bush went the much more difficult route of; highjacking a plane (only one of the planes highjacked that day, by the way), landing it and disposing of all the people (some high profile media pundits, too), then firing a missile at the Pentagon in hopes no one would notice that it wasn't a giant plane, ignoring the hundreds of bystanders who would see exactly what happened, etc...
>"this has now gotten to the point that I feel bad for even contacting you at all."<
You should. You were rude. I have no idea why it would matter to you if I like that film or not and I have no idea why you're so bent out of shape simply because I said that the Loose Change film can be easily debunked. But like you said, I guess what REALLY set you off was the fact that I had no idea who you were (you said it, not me).
>"You are happy using your few copy and pasted "truths" and I am more interested reading everything I can to find the real truth."<
And you say *I'M* rude? Christ, I HAVE read countless books on this subject, I always read the news, and I have THOROUGHLY investigated (to the best of my ability, I'm not in the CIA) these Loose Change allegations, and it is clear that they are false and the film is complete speculation. All one has to do is WATCH the film to see that its baseless speculation.
>"Their are always 2 sides of truth and the REAL truth is usually somewhere down the middle. Maybe that is a foreign concept to you...I don't know."<
No. Facts are facts. There are not two versions of any fact. There is simple reality and what someone wants reality to be (or is trying to spin in order to gain something). As for me, I simply take PROVEN FACTS and LOGIC and use that to determine truth. I don't let some half assed filmmaker who made a REALLY poorly researched film like Loose Change (a film that actually presents LIES as "truth") make my mind up for me.
>"I just know that my tact and charm is failing miserably here"<
I'm sorry to break this to you but you have shown NO tact and NO charm. I am not trying to be mean, I'm being honest. I suggest you go back and re-read your emails to me and my responses.
>"because I am now seeing you as an arrogant, pompous snob. God I wish I didn't, but I do. I hope I'm way off the mark though and am seeing you all wrong. Time will tell."<
Rebecca, I've done NOTHING wrong to you. I have simply stated why I don't believe the absurd claims in Loose Change after you wrote me several rude and arrogant emails. You have continually escalated your negativity simply because you want me to believe this baseless film, like you do. YOU wrote to me attacking me several times now. I have not insulted you at all, yet you have insulted me throughout two emails, and FOR NO REASON. Who's the arrogant snob? It ain't me sista!
Look I have no time for this. Clearly you thrive off chaos and you create it wherever you can. You can discuss politics, etc, if you want with me on the LAM Online Community but I am going to block you from this account. I have been more than nice to you and, honestly, you've been extraordinarily rude in return. I don't have time for people who are so mean and I don't want to subject the regular webmaster of this page to your baseless hostility.
Sean
This is an exchange that took place in the last 2 days through the LAM MySpace page presented for your amusement.
So, some guy sent the LAM MySpace page a link to his blogs and asked that I read them, saying that he had something about this "Loose Change" film that has all this conspiracy theory and provably false stuff about 9/11 (like missiles hitting the Pentagon, missile launchers on the planes that hit the WTC, planned demolition of the WTC, etc).
I responded by basically saying "Its great you're trying to educate people, keep up the good work but we don't support that film because it so easily disproved as false". He apparently wrote to an INSANE friend of his on MySpace and she sent this raging angry email asking why I didn't believe in this absurd film. Read this and laugh. It gets better as it goes on. Her real anger surfaces when I say I have no idea who she or her organization are (she actually states this). She also claims that LAM are volunteers in her organization.
After I'd blocked her from being able to contact the LAM MySpace page she sent an email from her Goth Help Us page saying that I'm a "whiner" and I'm ugly and that everyone hates me. That's all she said. That's how the story ends. She offered no response to the substance of my final email.
I have no idea where I whined to her, she was the one whining to me. And I'm sorry she thinks I'm ugly, but she's no prize herself. But the important thing is she didn't, and couldn't, respond in any way to what I'd said in my final response- she just spewed out childish insults and lies about me like a 2 year old. I mean, this woman 40 and likes to start childish online drama, has a kid, claims to be clairvoyant and be able to see the future, and is trying to pass herself off as a counselor to goth kids with mental issues. I think she needs to start with herself! Anyway here's the conversation. This first email came after I told her friend I didn't believe the Loose Change film:
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Angel of Light wrote:
>"Is there a reason why you are telling people that the Loose Change video is crap? Are you blind? Did you even watch it? Are you still able to use your own mind or has someone brainwashed you into thinking everything is still beautiful here?
Fine. Let's say you're right for the sake of argument. Go watch this video and tell me what you think then. You want truth? Then learn it. Educate yourself. Use your own free mind to seek it out. Knowledge is power.
video.google.com/videopla...amp;q=jfk2
I have too much respect for your music to let this issue go. But if in the end, if you still choose to live in a dream world, then so be it. Your music will simply be on my casualty list of stupid bands I'll never listen to again.
Rebecca"<
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A little bit rude, huh? Ok... Whatever. You hear from all kinds of crazy people when you're in a band, so no big thing. My response:
Yes I have seen these conspiracy films about no plane hitting the Pentagon, etc. This is what you're referring to, correct? I'm not saying 100% of what is implied (or inferred) in these films is false; there is some truth that there was a cover up about many things, bad planning, US involvement (in building up bin Laden, for example), etc. But most of the claims made in the film are outright silly.
That is why I said what I said (that Loose Change was a film that is easily debunked). I don't make claims or form opinions based on nothing. I'm sorry this upsets you so much and have no idea why it WOULD upset you so much, but I am FAR from living in a dream world- just read our blog for proof. However I don't believe in baseless conspiracy. The "facts" presented in that film were based on nothing, there is no true evidence that supports most of the claims made in the film. Just because the films states something in a believable or dramatic way doesn't mean its true. You must also present PROOF. Being skeptical is very important in finding out the truth.
The facts show this film "Loose Change" to be wild conspiracy. The video offers absolutely no evidence for its claims and does damage to the efforts of the people who are really searching for the truth by painting EVERYONE who despises Bush (and the republican neo-con world domination agenda) as wild conspiracy theorists. This HURTS our cause! There are far more disturbing reasons why 9/11 happened and it has nothing to do with bogus planned demolition or missiles hitting the Pentagon.
I watched the film and was amazed at how absolutely stupid some of the claims were (missile launchers on the planes that hit the World Trade Centers, denying fact about eye witness accounts of a plane hitting the Pentagon, absurd leaps of reality for absolutely no reason- in other words with no proof or basis in reality, etc).
I hardly see that demanding concrete proof before believing something warrants you calling us "stupid". The fact is that Loose Change can EASILY be proven to be baseless. That is why when asked I said I don't think Loose Change makes any valid points.
Please read this. Its pretty accurate and comes from Wikipedia.com. You can send your apologies after you've read this fully and understand it. ;)
Loose Change on Wikipedia
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So she writes back (this includes my response, her email is in italics):
Angel of Light wrote:
>"You know, after writing that to you initially I did go to your profile and was surprised that we actually agree on so many things. We are more aligned than I first realized. I still have my doubts about your belief in this though even though you make a compelling argument."<
Well, the fact is the film Loose Change can be easily debunked. As written in my last email, the film presents no facts, just speculation and ignores fact, as well. I don't doubt that there was criminal behavior on the part of our government (like criminal negligence, etc), however to make such far fetched speculation as made in that film only hurts our cause, which is to spread the truth about the criminal Bush regime. I almost think that films like this were released by pro-Bush people in order to make our side seem "wacky"- like a disinformation campaign waged to undermine our real concerns with our government, which are far more troubling than the sci-fi premise presented in Loose Change. I mean, abducting whole plane-loads of people (why not just fly an empty plane into a building, so much easier), missile launchers on airliners that were bound to be highly photographed, far-fetched speculation about planned demolition that actually requires TONS of works before-hand that residents of the building would have noticed, etc. There are so many false "facts" present and the general theories and speculation presented in the film really makes NO sense at all. Therefor, embracing a film like this makes our side's argument weaker because it can all be easily debunked with logic an facts. Again, I'm not saying that Bush isn't a criminal, he is, but the theories in the film make no sense.
>"Let's break this down.....I have seen Loose Change several times. Never do I remember them saying a plane landed in Cleveland. I am confused on where the author got that info. Now I will watch it again to try to find out where he is getting that from. The lightpoles are irrelevant in themselves being knocked down. It was the positioning in HOW they were knocked down. They were laying as if they fell backwards from the Pentagon, not laying forwards as if a plane or whatever had hit them."<
Again- there were hundreds of witnesses that saw a jet hit the Pentagon.
>"Yes they break easily. I've had my own run in with a light pole and it fell in the direction in which my car slammed into it. Another question I have is this....the people watching the video in the hotel right after it happened. You know, the videocam on top of the hotel. How could the FBI show up there so quickly to retrieve it? Their office was just plowed into by something.....yet the FBI was at that hotel in a few minutes? That is illogical. A disaster happening takes over common sense. *I* can only conclude they knew about it ahead of time and had planned for such an event. There are other specific things to address, but we can go head to head at another time if you wish. :)"<
The FBI is everywhere. I've seen car accidents occur and cops appear seemingly out of nowhere to block off traffic etc, and I hadn't seen a cop all day long. Its not real hard to imagine large numbers of FBI agents being around Washington DC and going into a frenzy when the Pentagon is hit by a jumbo jet on purpose. Besides, being that so many points presented in this film are either false or misrepresented, I don't know how accurate that story is.
>"Call me crazy...I don't care. I'm just a single mom of a 4 year old son...I live in the midwest, but I am farrrrr from stupid. My parents raised me to think with my own brain and not just easily accept the shit this country spoon feeds us as truth. The bottom line, is no matter who's right about any of this doesn't matter. The fact that there are very basic questions that this government refuses to answer is ludicrous. You could have 50 people on both sides of this give compelling evidence as to why the other side is wrong. Court cases see this every day. "Experts" on both sides completely contradicting each other. I personally think a humorists view on anything is merely opinion."<
Actually I don't' think the pro-Bush side can give a convincing argument at all. The 9/11 Commission report found that the Bush administration fucked up, and badly. So many facts prove that Bush mishandled this whole thing, was in business with the bin Ladens, etc. The truth is far more troubling than speculation.
>"you are right on one thing though...I need to research this more thoroughly from many points of view. Thank you for the inspiration."<
Well, I don't think you need to view many "points of view". You need to view fact, that's all.
>"Did you watch the video on JFK? I am curious to know your opinion on it. By the way, who am I speaking with? It would be nice to know."<
Sorry, no I haven't seen that one.
>"And for the record, I do NOT broadcast my views of this stuff on Goth Help Us (I am president and founder). My organization is built on helping people, not breaking them down by my rabble rousing. People that are hungry or are in pain could care less about what happened on 911. I started GHU to bring goths together to do positive things and to try to help them climb out of their depression by doing so. Call me a Pollyanna, but this thing has totally taken off and I refuse to allow general society to dictate to me what goths are or are not. You are one of our volunteers...not sure if you realize that, but I hope you're there because you want to help and didn't just add us randomly. Just to make sure, please check us out. www.myspace.com/gothhelpus www.gothhelpus.org I just want to make sure you are truly with us. If not, please delete us."<
I'm not sure I understand. I'm "where" exactly? Actually I've never heard of "Goth help us" before and we don't add people on MySpace (we only accept add requests). You must have added us if we're MySpace "friends". And we haven't volunteered for anything. This is simply a band profile which is normally handled by my friend (though I, Sean, decided to respond to your email yesterday- I usually respond to the political stuff if I have time). Can you explain what you mean by we're "volunteers"?
Sean
_____________________________________
So she writes back again (this includes my final response, her email is in italics):
Angel of Light wrote:
>"Reading what all you wrote was interesting to me, although I disliked the snide comments you wrote in an obviously sarcastic way. Your arrogancy and automatic assumption that I have NOT checked facts pisses me off.""<
Rebecca, I made no snide comments and tried to be very nice, actually. You were the one who wrote LAM a rude email out of nowhere, and YOU were the one who stated I didn't know the facts! Don't you remember? The REASON I have been emphasizing the fact that I don't believe baseless conspiracy is because you attacked me to begin with by saying that *I* was uninformed. So by your measuring stick YOU'RE the arrogant one. Not me. All I did was reply to your rude attack by stating that I research things before I make my mind up, and I use PROVABLE truth and logic to form opinions.
I think you're being very hypocritical.
Anyone else would have told you to get lost (in much harsher terms), trust me, but I tried to explain my point of view to you for the reasons I expressed in my previous email (it hurts the liberal cause to be publicizing provably false and illogical conspiracy theory). And I was in no way attempting to be arrogant or insulting, nor did I claim you didn't check your facts (I simply said that the film Loose Change is easily debunked and this is why I told your friend that I don't support that film. YOU are the one who attacked me for not believing a silly film with no basis in reality! YOU were the one who, out of nowhere, claimed *I* was uninformed. Yet you cannot prove ONE "fact" in Loose Change to be true. Why? Because its all SPECULATION and FALSEHOODS. I, on the other hand, can provide you with proof that there were hundreds of witnesses to the plane hitting the Pentagon for example, or proof about architecture that explains building collapses, etc, all of which debunk some central claims in Loose Change. So why are you being so rude, arrogant and mean?)
>"But what REALLY upsets me, is you don't even know who Goth Help Us is, yet you accept a friends request and blame it on a friend doing it, then we simply get lost in your masses of "friends" and now you wonder what we're about?"<
Blame a friend? What?! Um... Ok, to explain again- this is a BUSINESS account for the band London After Midnight. LAM has over 30,000 "friends" here. We don't add anyone, they contacted us because I don't like to spam people or bug them if they aren't interested. So that's the policy with this page. I don't even normally manage the page, my friend does it because I just don't have the time. I do not personally know any of the 30,000 people on LAM's list except about 3 (also bands or music acts). I don't make "friends" online, on MySpace. Its common knowledge to anyone who knows me and LAM fans as well that I despise MySpace, being that it is so obsessed with image, amassing friends, and generating compliments rather than meaningful dialog- in other words, its all about fulfilling ego. Now your ego is bruised being that I don't know what your organization is. Wow, who'da thunk it? The fact is that you really shouldn't be stunned that people don't know you. That defines arrogance. (in contrast, standing up to someone who insults you for no reason does NOT define arrogance). This is why the LAM MySpace page directs everyone to the LAM Online Community, a place where deeper conversation can take place.
>"I just wonder how many of YOUR friends merely let you hang out on their friends list because you make them feel cool, yet they never listen to your music nor buy your music. You are NOT on my friends list, simply because I am actually friends with the people on mine. I use no one."<
I couldn't care less who does what on MySpace. Its an absurd website and the ONLY good thing about it is that it gives bands and film makers some exposure.
>"I guess that is why I'm stunned you don't even know who we are."<
Do you know my mother? Why not? I'm STUNNED you don't know my mother!!!! Now- doesn't that sound absurd? Why would you know who my mother is? You wouldn't because you've never had an opportunity to meet her. Same with you- I've never heard of your organization before. I am stunned that you call ME arrogant yet you act like I should know who you are. Jesus! Pot kettle black! Listen, as clearly stated on the MySpace page *I normally DON'T USE MYSPACE*. I only ever respond to some messages that are political in nature, like yours, and that RARELY ever happens. So I am also STUNNED that you added LAM but didn't bother to read our page or "get to know" LAM before you added LAM (as you claim you do).
>"I assume people actually take the time to find out who we are before accepting us as friends."<
See above.
Again- this is a band account. Not a personal account. I don't have nor would I ever use a personal account on MySpace. This MySpace page CLEARLY STATES that you cannot reach me (normally) through here, that the band won't read the email sent to this account. So why didn't you know that? Didn't YOU bother to read my page before you added LAM?! I guess not. So why not condemn yourself?
Again- if I were to personally get to know each person who applies to be friends on MySpace I'd spend all day doing so and have no life. As it is the person who manages this page for me (or myself) has to spend well over 1 hour per day accepting and thanking people, one by one, for asking to be "friends" with LAM. That is more than most other bands do. And that is ALL that can be expected- unless you think I should drive to each person's house and hand deliver candy and flowers as well. (THAT was sarcasm)
>"So who ARE we? We are Goth Help Us, a global organization of goths who are out to serve humanity. We organize blood drives, food drives, and do events where the proceeds go to darker themed charities like Suicide Awareness and Rape Prevention, Child Abuse Prevention, etc. We're still relatively new, but the organization has exploded with interest. The underlying reason I started this is to save goths lives and to try to make them feel part of something. We get them off of their depressed butts, out of their homes, and helping their fellow man. The more they help, the less depression they feel. Helping others has given them hope again. Our measure of success is guided by a different ruler of sorts. Financially we could be better off, but 6 kids have decided to live again. SIX. Ever hear of the butterfly effect? Those 6 kids keep me doing what I'm doing. If you want to know more, you can visit our website or go listen to my radio interview. It's blogged on my profile. I personally stand for peace, light, truth, and love and it consumes me. I may not have the best tact in the world, but I try."<
For someone who stands for peace and truth you're doing your best to start a fight with me, and for absolutely no reason, and you're doing your best to deny truth. Its very nice that you want to help people in need- LAM also does such work in a very unofficial (and smaller) capacity and has made similar accomplishments over the years, helping troubled kids. (In fact here's an email sent to LAM's MySpace page today: "huge huge fan..you guys are so fucking insperational please add me. with out you guys i would be dead.") ;)
So I applaud your efforts. Good luck.
But I must ask: do you have a degree or any training in providing mental help to people? Are you a 501(c)(3) certified organization? To be really effective one should have training (I studied general psychology and adolescent psychology for many years, myself).
Anyway- you stated in your last email that LAM were volunteers for your organization. Why would you say such a thing when we've never even heard of you?
>"As for the topic at hand, I think it's best that we agree to disagree. I cannot vouch the validity of anything that Wikipedia says. It is easily alterable."<
The point is you can go and research this yourself and find it to be true. Also, you can watch that film, Loose Change, and EASILY debunk it. Why? Because it is NOTHING but speculation. There is NO evidence presented, there are no valid "footnotes" that enable you to independently verify the claims made in the film. And the fact that the film outright fabricates "facts" should be enough to make you leery of the other claims in the film. Why trust it when the film lies? Because you WANT to believe some deep crazy conspiracy, that's why. Look, there is no doubt Bush and his neo-con handlers are out to dominate the world's oil supplies, being that we're VERY quickly running out of oil (and the only super power is the power that controls the oil). Bush was very happy to have a war in the middle east in order to try and fabricate a reason to occupy Iraq and elsewhere. But to be so religiously fanatic about this silly film that is so illogical is very odd.
>"The thing that truly amazes me though, is that I try in my last letter to resolve this issue and you attack me with sarcasm."<
I didn't attack you at all! I was trying to diffuse your obvious very bizarre anger and allow you to see why I said I didn't believe Loose Change to be believable. Why do you fabricate drama where none exists?
>"*sighs* As for the plane load of people disappearing, I don't know. Maybe you saw the 2nd edition of Loose Change which I did not. That sounds ridiculous, so maybe you're right on that point."<
You're avoiding the point- The point is that they say that a missile hit the Pentagon rather than a plane. So then what happened to that plane and all the people on board? Regardless of which version of the film you saw, this is a main premise of this silly Loose Change film. So they imply that rather than fly an empty plane into the pentagon, that Bush went the much more difficult route of; highjacking a plane (only one of the planes highjacked that day, by the way), landing it and disposing of all the people (some high profile media pundits, too), then firing a missile at the Pentagon in hopes no one would notice that it wasn't a giant plane, ignoring the hundreds of bystanders who would see exactly what happened, etc...
>"this has now gotten to the point that I feel bad for even contacting you at all."<
You should. You were rude. I have no idea why it would matter to you if I like that film or not and I have no idea why you're so bent out of shape simply because I said that the Loose Change film can be easily debunked. But like you said, I guess what REALLY set you off was the fact that I had no idea who you were (you said it, not me).
>"You are happy using your few copy and pasted "truths" and I am more interested reading everything I can to find the real truth."<
And you say *I'M* rude? Christ, I HAVE read countless books on this subject, I always read the news, and I have THOROUGHLY investigated (to the best of my ability, I'm not in the CIA) these Loose Change allegations, and it is clear that they are false and the film is complete speculation. All one has to do is WATCH the film to see that its baseless speculation.
>"Their are always 2 sides of truth and the REAL truth is usually somewhere down the middle. Maybe that is a foreign concept to you...I don't know."<
No. Facts are facts. There are not two versions of any fact. There is simple reality and what someone wants reality to be (or is trying to spin in order to gain something). As for me, I simply take PROVEN FACTS and LOGIC and use that to determine truth. I don't let some half assed filmmaker who made a REALLY poorly researched film like Loose Change (a film that actually presents LIES as "truth") make my mind up for me.
>"I just know that my tact and charm is failing miserably here"<
I'm sorry to break this to you but you have shown NO tact and NO charm. I am not trying to be mean, I'm being honest. I suggest you go back and re-read your emails to me and my responses.
>"because I am now seeing you as an arrogant, pompous snob. God I wish I didn't, but I do. I hope I'm way off the mark though and am seeing you all wrong. Time will tell."<
Rebecca, I've done NOTHING wrong to you. I have simply stated why I don't believe the absurd claims in Loose Change after you wrote me several rude and arrogant emails. You have continually escalated your negativity simply because you want me to believe this baseless film, like you do. YOU wrote to me attacking me several times now. I have not insulted you at all, yet you have insulted me throughout two emails, and FOR NO REASON. Who's the arrogant snob? It ain't me sista!
Look I have no time for this. Clearly you thrive off chaos and you create it wherever you can. You can discuss politics, etc, if you want with me on the LAM Online Community but I am going to block you from this account. I have been more than nice to you and, honestly, you've been extraordinarily rude in return. I don't have time for people who are so mean and I don't want to subject the regular webmaster of this page to your baseless hostility.
Sean

"I don't give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell."









