There are the email exchanges between Mina and myself. I post them to help clarify the situation with her as her last post to the forum is very confused and almost impossible to answer without these emails: The CAPITALS are for emphasis, they aren't "shouting".


EMAIL 1:

MINAVLADIMIR:
>"Baby, I think you missunderstood something... I wasn´t talking about you, your vegan lifestyle or the facts in which you belive and support...
Yes I´ve read the whole topic and I can´t stand reding over and over how "someone" call other people stupid... and you know it...
"<

SEAN: YOU are the only one who called someone stupid... baby. NO ONE but you said that anyone was stupid.


>"Yes, I got mad about it, and to be honest I don´t have anything against vegans (Alyosha is it and is not a problem for me), but anyway you´re surviving eating something that had life, plants has life and everybody knows that..."<

So what? I know this. However that plant life HAD NO BRAIN. It HAD NO THOUGHTS. IT DIDN'T FEEL PAIN WHEN EATEN- unlike an animal.
Again- the concept of being vegan is that we inflict as little misery on other living feeling beings, so they consume plants because all science shows plants are not sentient beings. And many vegans also try to make the smallest footprint on the planet too (meaning they recycle, conserve, etc, thus care that farming meat uses FAR MORE FUEL AND RESOURCES THAN FARMING VEGETABLES).


>"About the fuel, that gives a worse dammage to the environment, that´s why I said so,"<

And farming meat USES MORE FUEL THAN FARMING VEGETABLES. What don't you understand about that? This has been discussed repeatedly.


>" what I was triying to say was that ok, you post facts that show us how doing some things dammage the environment, but you forget all those things that I´ve mentionated..."<

No I haven't forgotten, I talk about this all the time. The fact that you said this proves you didn't read my posts and have not been following my writings for the past several years. This has been discussed repeatedly.


>"I´ve never said that those weren´t facts, I just said that you, Anna, me or whoever you want isn´t able to call another people stupid or without "critical thinking skills", just because they think in a different way..."<

Anna or myself NEVER called anyone stupid. If you have problem with that Diane girl, then talk to her. But she didn't call anyone stupid either, I don't think. You are the only one who called anyone stupid. And for no reason. So why are you complaining?


>"You just can´t, every one of us in the forum has a different way to see it and you have to respect that..."<

Again, facts don't change depending on who looks at them. The fact that the diamond industry, for example, is cruel and causes war, rape, slavery and murder doesn't change depending on if I'm looking at it or you're looking at it or NorthDarkElf is looking at it. THAT WAS ALL I SAID. And you CANNOT argue against that. There are absolute truths and facts we know and can prove to be absolute. THIS IS ALL I SAID.


>"understand now? no one has the right to do it, but well if they have that right, why shouldn´t I?"<

YOU are doing exactly what you say I'm doing. You have said that I have said things that I never said, you are saying that I have no right to simply discuss a topic AFTER NorthDarkElf says there are no provable facts or truths about subjects I talk about. I'm sorry but when someone says my stance in life is based on nothing in my very own discussion forum I will respond with the truth and set the record straight. Understand now?

Sean

_____________________________________________

EMAIL 2:


>"Yes I did, and I take the responsability about it, because at least I can do it... but if you think that it´s ok, well it´s ok, your little friends will keep calling us stupid people, and you´ll support them.."<

My "little friends"? What friends? The only friend I have there [in that discussion] is Anna and she wasn't rude at all. So no one I know called anyone stupid. And that Diane girl didn't call anyone stupid, either, I don't think. Just because you WANT to think that someone was called stupid doesn't make it fact. You're the only one who called anyone an idiot.


>"just because for you Anna didn´t call anyone "stupid", she did for me, and that won´t change... I would change my mind the day you´ll see things as they are..."<

Again- if you have a problem with that Diane person, then talk to her, don't talk to me. I don't want to hear it. I don't know Diane and I don't need silly drama. Don't accuse me or Anna of her actions. However as Deviancy and Beanalit posted, you may have misunderstood her post. She didn't call anyone "stupid".


>"Do you want me to tell you that you´re right? ok you are, but why you don´t understand that I have my own facts too? just because that´s your truth? if it is, you really disappoint me..."<

People can't have their own facts, people can't have their own reality. There is only ONE reality. As I said a million times its not MY truth, its your truth too. Are we clear on that concept now?

If you can't understand that some things in this world are absolute, then you disappoint me. We're not talking about OPINION, we're talking about FACT. There is a HUGE difference.


>"That couldn´t be possible, because I log into the forum just a year ago, and I didn´t showed up at least 6 months of the last year in the forum, cause I was studing and I had little time to see all the things I have on internet, plus Im a forum moderator, have a Ramones page to take care of all the time, 4 e-mail accounts, myspace, blogs, other forums, I mean your forum isn´t the center of my "internet world"...
I know you do stuffs too, but I didn´t spent my whole days on your forum and following every word that you said, and should I? why?
"<

You should because you jumped into a discussion without actually understanding what you were talking about. That's why you should read what I wrote- not because I think I am great (as you seem to think), but only to understand what I was saying so you didn't accuse me of stuff I didn't do and post negative things in the forum. That was all I said. Being that you thought I didn't mention energy usage shows you didn't actually read my words. So are we clear on this point now?


>"just because there are YOUR words and you think you´re right because no one in the forum dares to contradict you?"<

I never suggested that anyone should believe ME or listen to ME. Its actually NorthDarElf and you who are claiming that no one should listen. You're implying that people have no brains and are my "little friends" and don't dare contradict me, etc. So I have no idea where this wrath is coming from or why you'd even say such a hateful thing to me. But I don't deserve it.


>"Let´s face it you´re not god, neither I, you´re just a common man as many others that´s all..."<

Yes, I know this. I was never under any delusion that I was god. You're the only one who seems to think anyone might believe otherwise.


>"Who said that I was talking to you? no reason? well it isn´t a reason for you but it is for me... anyway you´ll never understand that..."<

Yeah, no reason. You misunderstood what that Diane person was saying, I think.

I didn't say you were calling me stupid (though you did say you COULD call me [or Anna] an idiot because I asserted that we do have absolute provable FACT in our world that cannot be contradicted by someone's personal opinion. I'm sorry, but no one could call me stupid because of that). [note- she said this to Anna but Anna was repeating my points and Mina also addressed things I'd said, so it was to me as well even though she denies it].

And anyway you directed all your anger towards me and Anna and that isn't fair. You also suggested that people in the forum mindlessly agree with me (as if the FACTS weren't enough reason for people to share the same outlook as I have) and that I am some egomaniac who thinks people should follow and that maybe I think I'm god. This is all HATEFUL stuff. You are being very unfair because you overreacted to something that you misunderstood and are also blaming me for other's words.

All I said to NDE was that we have absolute truth in our world, which is provable. NorthDarkElf is the one who essentially said that my posts were worthless because there are 2 sides to the issue, so my facts didn't matter. I didn't say her opinion was worthless nor did I insult her, I just backed up the FACTS that we know and upon which I base my posts to the forum.


>"Yes it changes, ´cause people form different opinions, ideas, thoughts, about it and then they decide what to do, or what to belive about it... but ok you´re right and Im not, happy?"<

See, you are not understanding what this discussion is about- Ok, pretend we're talking about the shape of the earth instead of the diamond industry. Pretend that I said the earth is round and you came along and said "well everyone has their own opinion and there are 2 sides of this issue so I feel the earth is flat". This is essentially the argument NorthDarkElf used about the diamond industry. I responded by saying judging by the FACTS we KNOW to be TRUE about the diamond industry, it IS terrible, horrific and should not be supported. NorthDarkElf responded and said that there are 2 sides of the issue, the other side being that she personally feels no problem with the industry because many Russian woman wear diamonds- so people should discount what I said and judge for themselves. I then said that people aren't entitled to their own FACTS, only opinion which is not equal to fact. Understand? Why are you angry with me for saying something so reasonable in response to something so unreasonable?

I presented FACT. She presented OPINION. We were discussing FACT, not OPINION. She is entitled to her own opinion. Not her own facts.

Now, back to the shape of the earth: I have science on my side to prove that the earth is round. And you have nothing to prove that its flat. The earth is round is not an OPINION. It is FACT, as proven by all the evidence we have. Are you with me so far?

Now, apply this SAME thing to the diamond industry or the meat industry. The diamond industry causes mass suffering, death, supports slavery, cases environmental damage, etc. Those are proven FACTS. Not OPINION. Now if someone wants to think that the diamond industry is just fine despite all the horrors it causes, then they are entitled to have that OPINION. But that doesn't say much for someone who would discount all that suffering for the sake of owning diamonds, does it? And it doesn't change the FACT that the diamond industry is cruel and filled with horrors, correct?

Now, northdarkelf only said that there is another side and she may like diamonds so its ok for her to buy them. I'm sorry but that isn't an equal perspective on the issue, it is only her personal OPINION that she doesn't care about the diamond industry. And that's her choice to feel that way. BUT IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACT THAT THE DIAMOND INDUSTRY IS FILLED WITH HORRORS. AND THAT WAS ALL THAT I SAID. Do you understand?


>"Don´t tease me Sean, Im not a kid... plus you didn´t understood a word... and I´ll tell you why or maybe you´ll answer the question, be honest and tell me, did I ever told you that being a vegan was the most stupid thing ever? Did I ever told you that things in which you belive are just silly? Did I ever told you that you´re lifestyle is a mess?
I think I´ve always respected that, then why can´t I have my own facts?
"<


Everyone is entitled to their own OPINION. But they aren't entitled to their own FACTS.
Everyone is entitled to their own OPINION. But they aren't entitled to their own FACTS.
Everyone is entitled to their own OPINION. But they aren't entitled to their own FACTS.
:)
The universe does not operate that way. You can have the OPINION that the diamond industry is great, for example, but you'd have nothing but personal OPINION to support that claim (just as if you were saying the earth was flat, you have nothing to support that claim). We know that the diamond industry is destructive and we have a wealth of information to support this assertion.

NorthDarkElf produced NOTHING but personal OPINION that other Russian woman wear diamonds so therefore she doesn't feel there is a problem wearing them either- she said that since she has an OPINION then no FACTS matter and people need to judge for themselves. And if she wants to say that, its fine. I didn't call her stupid and I wasn't mean to her. But her OPINION is not FACT. But you cannot discount FACT when forming an opinion - and have a VALID opinion.

>"why can´t I discuss in the same way with the things in which I belive? "<

You can. But again you are confusing FACT with OPINION. And you aren't reading and comprehending what it is I have written. I am not saying you're stupid I am saying you aren't understanding my words.


>"Oh and I almost forgot another point, when I´ve talked to you in that topic? tell me when, because I wasn´t talking to you and you took it personal... baby"<

I assume you are referring to my response to you in the forum? Your post was largely directed at Anna, even your anger, but also had to do with my posts. Anna was posting stuff that backed up my posts.

Sean

____________________________________________________

EMAIL 3:

>" [about Diane] She should start to write better then... you know I don´t explode without reasons, that sounded insulting, can you understand my point?"<

Sure, I understand you wanting clarification of something that you interpreted as insulting. That's reasonable. However, I'm not to blame, ok! :)
And you shouldn't explode because when you do that you assume a lot of wrong things due to emotion ruling rather than reason.


>"you are not having it (drama)"<

Actually having to take the time to repeatedly explain something that is so obvious, and having people (NDE, Alyosha and you) upset, and having it effect my band forum is drama. There was no reason for the drama. There was no reason for any of this.


>"Again, she should write better then..."<

Fine, tell her that. Not me. I don't even know her.


>"Yes I read it... and no, I don´t think so about you... ok you don´t deserve it then I excuse myself...
About energy it´s a fact you need it to play, or am I wrong? plus Diane mentioned it, that´s why I said so...
"<

You said that I forgot to mention energy consumption. I didn't forget. I did mention it and have talked about it extensively for years. So I maintain that you did not actually read my words.

I use energy and I never claimed I didn't. So what is your point? That doesn't negate or invalidate anything I've said. In fact a vegan diet uses LESS energy. SO WHY SAY IT?

As I said you make the changes that you can. Currently we have no alternatives to commercially available fossil fuel energy, so we conserve and advocate for change. And the changes I CAN make, like to my diet, I make. Eating meat uses FAR more energy and causes far more pollution than eating plants. Therefore I eat plants. If you're concerned about energy or soy production, then why consume meat? Eating meat uses MUCH more energy and soy than eating a vegan diet.

And you can work "green". Many band tours are zero emission endeavors, where they compensate for any emission or pollution they might create and also recycle, use alternative fuels, etc. Radiohead does this, the Rolling Stones, etc. But LAM doesn't perform enough to even make a difference. But if LAM does any extensive touring it will be as Green as possible, as I've already publicly stated.


>"I´ve said so? oops I already told you, Im not angry with you, and it´s right you don´t deserve it... actually I can understand your point, it´s your lifestyle, your facts, your ideas, but understand, it´s not mine... and like it or not other people should respect that, ´cause you, me, Anna, Dev, everyone has the right to choose..."<

No one said you didn't have the right to chose. You SERIOUSLY do not understand me if you feel the need to say this to me. SERIOUSLY. The Sean Brennan you think you're talking to doesn't exist.

And this further proves you aren't reading and COMPREHENDING the things I've written. Honestly you have a very VERY warped view of me, of vegans in general and this entire debate. NO WHERE have I told people how to live. I have simply defended my positions after they were essentially "attacked" (for lack of a better word, thats' too harsh a word) as being baseless by NDE (she essentially said all "my" "facts" were baseless). That's all. I have also said that these aren't MY facts or ideas, they are YOUR facts, too. Truth is truth, reality is reality. You're a girl, no matter what, right? Nothing will change the fact that you're a girl (aside from a sex change operation). Well, the diamond industry is just as destructive whether I'm looking at it or whether you're looking at it. That is FACT. Not opinion. The meat industry is just as destructive and wasteful if I look at it or you look at it. TRUTH is TRUTH. FACTS are FACTS. You can chose not to care about those facts, however your choice to not care doesn't negate THE FACTS!

You can chose to dismiss reality and continue on the path of eating meat and buying diamonds. And that's your right and you should feel free to do so. But your opinion that the destruction you're supporting is not important IS only your opinion and NOT fact. OPINION is not FACT.


>"No no no and... no... Im just saying that you´re a normal person, but some people won´t EVER disagree with you because you´re their idol..."<

Well if there are any impressionable people like that then I do my best to be honest, tolerant and consistent. I am not saying I'm perfect or under any delusion that I am better than anyone else. I'm just saying I try to be accurate and make decisions based on FACT. I understand that some younger kids may look up to someone in my position as an influence. After 15 years in this band, I do know this. I'm not an idiot. And that is why I try to advocate for REALITY, not OPINION.

Only when armed with FACT can we form VALID opinion. Wouldn't you agree? All I do is provide some fact on a discussion board from time to time. And some visitors of that board are not exposed to reality because of the corporate world we live in that hides the truth about industries like meat, diamonds, etc.


>"Then she should learn to right a little bit better, just in case it could happen again..."<

Tell her, not me.


>"The stupid thing was for Anna and Diane, not you, so don´t take it for you, because nothing that I said was for you..."<

Why would you consider it possible to call Anna stupid? Her's was the most informed and reasonable voice in that entire thread (not to mention that she's a working scientist at the top science school in the world)! And she was simply saying the same things I said. So if you call her ideas stupid then you're also calling me stupid because she was saying the same thing I was.


>"Correction: I was talking to Anna so, you shouldn´t feel that way... I just said how people see you, not that you´re an egomaniac, but that´s a FACT, some people at the forum see you as God and because of it the don´t "dare" to disagree with you, and that is obviously stupid, I mean that kind of reaction about what you say..."<

And its equally stupid for people to disagree with me for no reason.


>"Again, I didn´t said that YOU insulted her..."<

You said I supported people calling your friends stupid. NO ONE CALLED ANYONE STUPID ... except YOU!


>" Im not angry with you, want a fact you have it just a few words before..."<


Did you even read what I wrote?


>"Ok, but a few centuries before I would have the right fact, I mean history has lots of FACTS and most of them were mistakes, so I can´t trust in something so fragile as that kind of "fact" because I can change it with the proves that you have now..."<

You're telling me that history will show that rape, murder, slavery, within the diamond industry was good? We were talking about the diamond industry where these actions have been PROVEN to be taking place. No one denies them. This was the point of what I'd been saying, that there are some ABSOLUTE truths in this world. Like the earth is round. Like rape and slavery is wrong. Like using up our natural resources and polluting by farming animals is wrong. These are the truths I spoke of. You're telling me that time will reveal that all this is good? That's why you doubt? We're not discussing M Theory here, or black holes or other dimensions or the Big Bang. We're talking about very easy to understand and very easy to research things like the diamond and meat industries.


>"Right, but I said it once and I´ll say it again, you can´t change people´s mind, or you can but that´s very diffcult..."<

You aren't paying attention. I wasn't trying to convince anyone of anything except that there are FACTS in this world. Like the diamond industry does horrible things. Are you telling me that this is not truth? Well, it IS truth, documented provable truth. That was all I was saying. I wasn't trying to make anyone think like me, aside from accepting that there is absolute truth in this world.


>"Ok I agree with you this time, but you must understand her too, she has her reasons to think that way, and you or even I won´t change that... and that is a FACT about her... you can try to change people´s mind but understand that they have their reasons too, as you have yours..."<

CHRIST ALL FUCKING MIGHTY GOD! YOU AREN'T UNDERSTANDING ANYTHING! I was never trying to get NDE to change her mind about liking diamonds. She offered OPINION that the diamond industry was fine, and said it was because other woman wear diamonds. I offered or referred to FACT that it was NOT fine, and ONLY because she said my facts were baseless. I wasn't trying to convince her of anything except OPINION isn't FACT.


>"Actually you can, you can say that diamond industry is one of the best ways to make you rich and there´s proofs about it... even when I don´t agree with that..."<

Yeah, it can make a select few wealthy. That doesn't negate the horrific destruction perpetrated upon large numbers of people - and that FAR outweighs the comfort it provides to a very few people. So, the argument that the diamond trade is good is not logical, being that we KNOW its massively destructive to entire countries and generations of people. However, you can have the OPINION that the diamond industry is good - but only if you disregard the horror it causes.


>"Again and again and again the same, it wasn´t about you... and to let you know I know the difference, but when I´ve posted a fact you said that I didn´t read what you´ve posted..."<

Yes it was about me. You responded to Anna who was saying the same thing I said and who was ONLY posting in support of the points I'd made and to contradict untruths that others had posted. And you argued against things I had said, as well. How didn't your post have anything to do with me?


>"Trust me I spent an hour on it, then 30 minutes with my own response..."<


That doesn't mean you are understanding it. Because its clear you really do not understand me.


>"Then it wasn´t against you, but Im still the devil here"<


See 2 paragraphs above.

Sean

__________________________________________________

EMAIL 4:

>"Maybe, it´s just how I react before those facts... and I don´t justify it, it´s an explanation..."<

I see. So when a person jumps to false conclusions and cause drama due to pure emotion and misunderstanding they can't get away with it without consequences. Now the consequences that resulted in this little situation are: people may think I did something wrong because maybe you jumped to conclusions and did not understand something. I don't think that's fair. You condemned me and Anna for being intolerant, when in fact that wasn't the case AT ALL. It was NDE who discounted REALITY in order to justify her possible desire for diamonds. Now I am not saying she is bad at all, she can like diamonds, and I still think she's a cool person. I'm just saying that maybe she was being intolerant by claiming the truths I posted were worthless. Yet you yell at me and Anna for claiming that truth is truth?

As far as I was concerned, NDE and Alyosha and I were simply discussing the issue. There was no reason for anyone to be upset. They had no reason to get angry. However they did get angry. And your post made it worse.

I don't deserve this. I did nothing wrong except say that rape, murder, forced slavery and war was bad and cited the PROVABLE UNDENIABLE FACT that buying diamonds supports these horrors. NDE said my facts were baseless. Why are Anna and I out of line?


>"Every action has a reaction, and it´s not a drama, it´s just the reaction to "our" own interpretation of what other one said... to make it clear, by the way... "<

Well, there was no action here worthy of a reaction. There was a misinterpretation by NDE of what was being said, which resulted in you, NDE and Alyosha becoming upset. NDE was insisting personal opinion (like she thinks diamonds are fine because other Russian woman wear them) is as solid a basis for judging something as provable fact is (like the diamond industry supports rape, slavery, war, murder, etc, all of which is documented truth). All I was saying was that this isn't the case- opinion isn't fact. While you can discount the facts and have the OPINION that you don't care about the horrors and you just want diamonds, this isn't a FACT that says the diamond industry is positive. The industry is STILL negative even if a person likes diamonds.

There are absolute truths in the world upon which we can rely to tell us what is real. A therory: NDE was angry because perhaps she felt uncomfortable because she liked diamonds and Alyosha reacted as her boyfriend... So NDE said that the facts I referred to about the diamond industry were worthless and each person should judge what is right for themselves. THAT IS ALL THAT TOOK PLACE HERE. And I shouldn't be called intolerant for that.

Each person SHOULD judge what is right for themselves, however all I said was that they cannot discount the FACTS, the provable TRUTH, like NDE had done, and have a VALID opinion. Ok?


>"If Im telling you this is because you don´t see her words as I did and you justify her..."<

I have never once addressed her or justified Diane in that thread. I simply said that I don't think she said what you think she said.



>""Speaking about other stuffs, who thinks about energy when plays an electric guitar? a bass? a keyboard? fuel is needed to give you electricity to give your fans a show, you use it when you turn on your computer, plus you use many machines, you drive a car, you take a plain, you take a ship, even the things you eat has a process that need it, and many other stuffs that needs energy to work, and none of you is worried about it..." - It´s general, did you see your name here? no, because that was for all... plus many of your users play different instruments, for example, Aschwin is a guitar player, so the answer is pretty general to take it personal... I guess, then I can say that you didn´t read mines either... "<

That is false. Why do you say "none of you is worried about it"? That is a lie because we are all very worried about it and talk about it all the time. Energy use is why we are at war right now. We are VERY concerned about it, its probably the number one concern being that it causes global warming, world war, etc. It was talked about in this thread even, and it takes MORE energy to farm meat than it does to farm a vegan diet. So what are you trying to say by mention other uses of energy? What's your point?

Why even mention the energy usage with electric guitars or whatever? We were talking about the diamond industry and meat industry.

The only reason to mention that is to try and invalidate anything I'd said by trying (yet failing) to paint me as some hypocrite (obviously you were referring to me and not Aschwin). NO WHERE did I ever say I don't use electricity. For many, being a vegan is partly about making the smallest impact environmentally (for other vegans its only about animal welfare).

However, we don't currently have commercially available energy alternatives. We do have food alternatives. So we make those changes that we can and we advocate for the changes we cannot make on our own, like commercially available alternative and renewable clean fuels.

Farming meat actually uses more energy than farming a vegan diet. So if your concern is energy consumption then I am still ahead of you by being vegan, even if I play an electric keyboard.

This point is important because it shows an unfair bias or hostility towards me- a desire to DISBELIEVE things I say or to try and invalidate anything I say with illogical statements or by adding "white noise" or confusion to the debate. And this desire to confuse the issue is ONLY a response to uncomfortable truths I had presented about meat or diamond industries by people who consume these products. Unfair, huh?

Now, wouldn't you agree that this is as pointless as a person mindlessly believing everything someone famous says only because they are famous? Wouldn't you agree that disregarding PROVABLE TRUTH and FACT only because you like meat or diamonds is just as stupid (using your terminology) as someone simply agreeing with me because of who I am?


>"Just to let you know, have been six months or a little bit less since I ate red meat, but I still eat chiken and fish (even when Im not fish nº1 fan), plus I eat a lot of things made with soy, I don´t eat fat by no means, I like vegetables, but I can´t live with just that (In my own opinion)... On the other hand, to be honest Im not worried about it, I meant on the post, that there are other ways to destroy your own planet, and trust me no one takes the elecrticity so seriously, then I posted it... that´s all"<

There is a huge growing movement to get off fossil fuels due to concerns over global warming. So people are taking it seriously. The war we are in and danger we all face is due to oil. People are aware of the problems with fossil fuels and the consequences of being dependant on them. I agree, too many people don't care. But it seems you just said you don't care. So I guess you're one of those people who don't care.
Of course one person can't realistically change the world by themselves. However, its our moral duty to do what we can. If we ignore that duty we are part of the problem, not part of the solution.


>"You don´t understand me either, but I´ll put it in simple words: m just letting you know how I think about Anna´s words, ´cause it seems that she can write a message which could be "mistaken" every time, and even if she´s wrong she´ll win anyway... that´s what I think about her words, and this is not the first time, at least for me..."<

I'm sorry but you are not understanding what she writes then.


>"Nah... it´s too expensive,and I like to be a girl, and anyway "Im just a girl"... (kidding)
Back to NDE, I won´t discuss her opinions and your responses to her any longer, at this point we won´t understand each other...
"<

The point is you aren't comprehending what the debate was about. I wasn't telling her how to live, I was telling her that the facts I presented were indeed FACTS, and ONLY after she said they were not facts. So why not tell her to be tolerant of me? Why are you so one sided and directing all this towards me?


>"Why would she consider it possible to call others stupids? and as I said, she can debate, discuss and whatever you want, but she won´t have my respect if she don´t show me that she´s a human being civilized instead of justifying her..."<

Above is your response to a paragraph ONLY about ANNA...
ANNA DIDN'T CALL ANYONE STUPID, NOR DID SHE IMPLY, HINT, OR SUGGEST ANYONE WAS STUPID- EVER. YOU ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION AND YOU ARE CONFUSING WHAT ANNA SAID WITH WHAT DIANE SAID.ANNA DIDN'T ADDRESS DIANE AND SHE DOESN'T KNOW DIANE. IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH DIANE'S POST THEN ADDRESS DIANE, NOT ANNA. ANNA IS NOT DIANE. DIANE CAN BE FOUND ON MYSPACE, LOOK HER UP. ANNA IS A WORKING SCIENTIST AT THE TOP SCIENCE SCHOOL IN THE WORLD- SHE DOESN'T USE MYSPACE.
This is why there is arguing going on between me, you and NDE. Because you guys aren't paying attention.


>"Take it easy Mr. Brennan, hold on, you didn´t understood well, I didn´t said that you were trying to change her mind, it was my personal thought, I mean I was trying to tell you so... don´t get mad..."<


You said in your last email that "I can't change people's minds" in response to the posts I'd made in the forum. So I repeat:
CHRIST ALL FUCKING MIGHTY GOD! YOU AREN'T UNDERSTANDING ANYTHING! I was never trying to get NDE to change her mind about liking diamonds. She offered OPINION that the diamond industry was fine, and said it was because other woman wear diamonds. I offered or referred to FACT that it was NOT fine, and ONLY because she said my facts were baseless. I wasn't trying to convince her of anything except OPINION isn't FACT.

Sean

__________________________________________________________
EMAIL 5:

>"Did I called you that? wrong..."<

Yes, you said this to Anna who was saying the same thing as I said, on my behalf, and you also cited things I had said when you said this, being that Anna was saying the same thing I said.


>"Because the dammage that you´re talking about isn´t the only one, and about electricity many people don´t take it seriously, so why not to take it, today the war is for petroleum, tomorrow could be for electricity, or any other resource...
Don´t get me wrong here, but U.S. makes wars for all that they can´t get... Im sorry if that hurt you in some way...
"<

This PROVES you don't know me and don't listen to things I say. I am the number one critic of the USA on the LAM forum, aside from Anna. I have an entire CD written about America as a terrible evil, one song being "America's a Fucking Disease". Why would your critique of the USA hurt my feelings when I have said FAR worse things about the USA for years and years, and DAILY in the LAM forum? Do you ever read anything I write? Have you looked at my website, or even the images on the forum, all of which clearly are geared towards an anti-US message. I mean, for someone to be unaware that I loath US policy and US actions is absolutely absurd.

Moving on- electricity isn't a resource. The fossil fuels that produce electricity are. I already said too many people don't think the energy issue is important enough. But this has nothing to do with what we were talking about, which was meat and diamonds. And if you think the US is bad then why argue with me about diamonds or meat? They are just as bad.


>"It´s ok, but there exist alternative energy, and I´ve took the liberty to give you some texts:
<www.tinarooeec.eq.edu.au/...ative.html
Maybe this is not the best way, but at least makes less dammage...
"<

No there are not substantial COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE sources of alternative energy at this time. You are not paying attention to what I write. I said "COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE". This means you and I have little access to energy produced by alternative methods. However, that does not negate any of the points I've made.

Again, we make the changes we CAN make (like our diet, and changing our diet helps a great deal) and we advocate for the changes we want to make (like clean energy). Cutting meat from our diet is not a pointless action simply because we still have to use primarily fossil fuel-based electricity. And that is what you're suggesting by saying that "your ignoring the other things that cause pollution". No one ignored anything but you. You ignored my very words in this thread about energy usage, and my daily posts to the forum that talk about all the various things that are destructive in our world. HOWEVER- this particular thread in the forum was about diamonds and meat. So we talked about them. We CAN talk about specific issues. Just because someone uses fossil fuels does not make being a vegan a worthless endeavor.


>"No no no, Im just saying that being a Vegan or even a vegetarian isn´t the last solution,"<

NO ONE SAID IT WAS! Why do you keep insisting that vegans think this way? NO ONE thinks this way!


>"that´s what I was trying to say about the "superhero" stuff... There are many things that people could fix on earth without being vegan or vegetarian, for example... do you understand me?"<

No one said being a vegan would solve every problem on earth. Why are you acting as if someone said that?


>"And no Im not against vegans or vegetarians, if you wanna know my boyfriend is vegetarian and Im ok with it, because he thinks that´s ok and I haven´t the right to tell people they are wrong to being vegans or vegetarians... do you know what I mean?"<

And you couldn't tell your boyfriend that he is wrong because SCIENCE shows us that eating meat is more harmful to the planet and our bodies that eating a vegan diet. FACT tells us this. FACT that is as true as "the earth is round" tells us this.


>"Actually Im being honest, I really don´t care, and I´ve never take it so seriously... Maybe because I´ve never take the time to see it from your perspective..."<

Then why are you complaining? If you don't care about the things that destroy the planet then why are you trying to confuse the issue by putting words in my mouth and by totally misunderstanding all that I am and all that I stand for, and doing this in my own forum, a forum that my fans read? That is NOT FAIR to me. You are misleading people and forcing me to waste my time trying to clear up this situation with you, NDE and Alyosha.

You're simply angry and you came up with: "well playing in a band uses energy too". NO SHIT! No one said I didn't use energy.

Your intention with that comment was to try and hurt my argument, try to invalidate my general point that the FACTS show that we would be better off avoiding things we can avoid if they are harmful or wasteful, like eating meat and buying diamonds. Your intention was to make it seem as if I was a hypocrite because I use electricity to power my lights. However, that argument is totally illogical for the reasons I've stated in EVERY SINGLE email I sent to you, and on the board as well... We don't have options for energy yet, but we do have options for food. And being that farming meat uses FAR more electricity and resources than farming a vegan diet, I chose to alternative that makes the least impact on the planet- the vegan diet.

Now if you don't care, that's your choice, I'm not saying you must think in any particular way. But don't come along and accuse me of hypocrisy when you have ZERO knowledge of the facts, and when you have zero knowledge of me, and when YOU don't care.


>" You missunderstood that, "you" doesn´t means you as Sean Brennan...
Why Im on one side? easy, things has two sides, and all of us choose in which one to stay, but I think there´s no middle point here, because for example look at us, you put your facts up on the table and Im just saying that if you´re worried about meat industry and diamonds industry, you should be worried about other stuffs that destroy your planet too, that´s all...
"<

I can think and talk about multiple issues, as can most humans. Just because the energy industry is harmful does NOT mean I can't also talk about how the diamond industry is harmful.

For YEARS I have talking about global warming, pollution, all kinds of issues related to the environment, workers rights, poverty, world hunger, the dangers of corporate power, etc, etc, etc. ALL of these things I discuss and advocate for on a regular basis, usually every day in this very forum (and I put daily news in the news ticker at the top of the page!!!!!!). For you to think or suggest that I don't care or know about other issues proves you have no idea what you're talking about (no offence intended, sorry if that sounds harsh).


>"see? there´s no middle point here, you´re in or out, there´s no grey in this discussion..."<

You are vastly uninformed about me, about vegans and about this situation. You are in the grey area. No offence intended, but you really have no idea what you're talking about regarding my stances, what I have said and what I haven't said, what I care for (even and general human behavior in that they can care about more than one issue at the same time). I mean in this email exchange I have had to say the same thing over and over and over for you to finally understand. Why? Because you are trying to NOT understand, that's why.

You have suggested that because I talked about the horrors in the diamond industry that I am ignoring all the other problems in the world. This is literally INSANE. Why can't we talk about one issue? Humans are capable of handling individual issues. And just because we talk about one issue doesn't mean we are ignoring other issues. If you ever paid attention to anything I've ever said then you'd know the huge range of issues I advocate for, usually daily.

You are saying that when I talk about one issue then I am ignoring other issues, and you're saying this in an attempt to make me stop talking, it seems. That is wrong for all the reasons I cited as well as being just plain mean. We can tackle individual issues, human brains CAN handle that. In fact that is the ONLY way to tackle them.


>"That´s true sorry, I realize it now that you mention it... so I´ll give Anna an apologize..."<

Why did it take me saying this literally 4 times before you realized it?


>"That phrase has another meaning, it´s like to say... mmmm... "If you play baseball someone could hit your head", the word "you" wasn´t exactly pointed on you = Sean Brennan, do you understand me? that "you" could means anyone, but not exactly Sean got it? maybe this is a twisted way to say it, but that was what I was saying..."<

BS.

Sean

____________________________________________________________
EMAIL 6:

>"So the whole thing here is that you think:
1 - I don´t know you
True, I don´t, oh I forgot, that makes me a bitch... but if I need to say it you don´t know me either, plus you can´t understand me because you feel "attacked" and you can see more that you want to read...
"<

No, I have provided you with examples of how you assumed many wrong things about me (re-read the last email). That's what I meant when I said you don't know me and don't understand. These assumptions were central to your entire argument (thinking that because I speak about diamonds then I don't care about other issues).


>"2 - "there are not substantial COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE sources of alternative energy at this time" but they exist and that makes of me some kind of foolish girl..."<

I never said you were foolish. Just because I point out assumptions you made that are wrong doesn't mean I'm insulting you. Your ego shouldn't be that frail to think you're being insulted just because i said you were wrong because you have a completely wrong view of me and vegans. That is how this all started to begin with, with NDE. She thought that since I pointed out fact that she was being insulted. She wasn't. And you aren't either.

Anyway- you are missing the point about he energy. You tried to undermine my points about the meat industry or diamonds by saying "well you use energy and that pollutes". SO WHAT! I explained that in some instances, like with our electricity, we have no alternative at present. That is why I constantly speak out for change in that regard. And since I don't want to pollute further I make other choices that help in that regard, like I don't support the meat industry. I fail to see what's so difficult to understand here.


>"3 - that Im making a chaos of vegans lifestyle, no I don´t you just don´t understand me, and fool of me I don´t know what Im talking about, plus you think that Im doing this to shut you up... Which suggests that I carry a banner that says: "I hate Sean Brennan, vegans, vegetarians, and all the people who don´t think like me""<

I suggest you re-read what I had written. There was no point to bring up the use of electricity as you did. The ONLY reason to bring that up is because YOU think that I think I am perfect and you wanted to try and say I wasn't. I never said or thought I was perfect, nor did I ever say I don't use electricity. I have never said being a vegan will solve all the world's problems. I have also spoken out a million times on global warming and conservation, and a million other issues. I also explained that we don't have energy alternatives available to us. So we make that changes in our lives we CAN make (like diet, because we DO have food alternatives) and advocate for changes elsewhere (like energy). So your point that I use electricity was invalid and illogical and ONLY presented in an effort to undermine anything I'd said.

So you were just trying to argue for the sake of arguing. In your last email you said you thought vegans thought they were saving the world. No vegan ever thought this. So your understanding of me, vegans, and this incident is lacking, that's all. That doesn't make you bad. Its just that you should investigate before you assume.



>"4 - That Im trying to not understand... come on, Im more than that, you just don´t see my point of view..."<

What point of view? That you think that I am not thinking about other problems in the world? That you think that I think vegans are saving the world? Because these are the points of view I challenged. And I'm sorry, but they are wrong. I can't see a point of view that's wrong. I can say that you're a boy, and when you challenge me and say you're really a girl I'm not going to say "well, you're just not seeing my point of view". Because that would be illogical. But that IS what you're doing to me. You're trying to tell me what I believe and how I think - and you're wrong.


>"5 - You take this whole thing so personal, and well we end up in this, why? easy, you´re too busy to make me say that Im sorry for what I said, but you know something? I won´t, because I belive in what I´ve said and you won´t change it, being Sean Brennan, Pablo Neruda, Nelson Mandela or even Ghandi..."<

You believe in your wrong assumptions and unfair judgements and misunderstandings? Ok, suit yourself.


>"6 - You don´t even detect sarcasm when is in front of you, but that´s another story..."<

For instance?


>"7 - Should I know you after all this?
I won´t deal with this any longer, really, Im tired... I give up I can´t stand this, this is the end of the story, I won´t deal with you any more, but I won´t give you the reason in some points either... I almost forgot, grey area doesn´t exist, face it...
So have a nice life Sean, and I hope longer than mine...
"<

Thank you.

Sean

_______________________________________________________
EMAIL 7:

>"1 - What do you think I think about vegans? ´cause I wanna know what I think... Yes Im being sarcastic"<

I already answered this in the last 2 emails. I cannot keep repeating myself. I've sent you several emails already saying the EXACT SAME THING., over an over.


>"2 - I said that Im foolish because it seems that I am..."<

Oh.


>"3 - You´re right, then Im wrong... happy?"<

I don't require an admission of someone being wrong or apologies in email (though a clarification in the forum would be nice just so people aren't under the false impression that I did something wrong). I just want you to understand that there was no reason to argue in the first place so we can move on. That's all. Perhaps a dance off is in order.


>"4 - I think you´re perfect? hahahaha that´s funny... good joke, tell me another one..."<

No, I said that you think that *I* think I am perfect. I never thought such a thing. Your entire argument has been that vegans aren't perfect and you use energy too and you aren't god.

Ok I never said I was god, perfect and I never said I didn't use energy. So what does ANY of that have to do with diamonds being destructive? Why even say these things? What does any of that have to do with the fact that we have provable truths in our world, and that was all I was saying to NDE. These FACTS do not change depending on someone's OPINION. You responded with "vegans aren't perfect". Umm, no one said vegans were perfect. Your entire argument has been based on a false assumption that vegans think they are perfect and flawless, because this is all you've been saying.


>"5 - "In your ast email you said you thought vegans thought they were saving the world. No vegan ever thought this." You just response what sarcasm is...
6 - I´ll repeat, "Should I know you after all this?"
"<

Ok, then remove the sarcasm and what is your argument? Remove anything you didn't mean and why are you writing to me and why did you post to the forum (aside from the anger you felt from Diane's post)? What is the problem? What is your concern?

Sean

______________________________________________________
EMAIL 8:

>"So you want a public apologize... I just can´t, because I didn´t changed my mind, but now then, the next time I won´t say a word, happy? just like a ghost..."<

No, not an apology. I said its be nice if everyone knew there was no reason for all of this, just misunderstanding. That's all.


>"About Dance Off´s videos, do you want another one? I can give you that, but speaking seriously, did you watched all that videos? man you have too much free time"<

Ha, I wish I had too much free time. But I watched the ones you linked up to in the forum. Funny stuff.


>"Pick better your words Sean, ´cause you are removing of context my words and arguing your idea of the same, even when is not what I have said literally..."<

Actually this IS what you said. I'm simplifying it a bit but it is essentially the message you've been repeating. Again I ask you, what exactly is the concern then? What is the problem? Why are you emailing me? ALL of your emails have suggested that I think vegans are perfect and that I am blind to other issues that might be damaging except meat and diamonds, also that Anna is mean for calling people stupid when she never called anyone stupid. I simply corrected you on several points since you were wrong. So, now you're saying that this wasn't your concern. So then, what was it?


>"You´re answering your own questions, read your last post on that topic..."<

So what I said was correct then.

Sean

__________________________________________________
EMAIL 9:

>"Well That´s why I made it, just because I have fun dancing, plus latins do that very often..."<

Well, the cartoons were funny, that's what I was referring to. The ones of you dancing were good though, too.


>"Then like I said before, you´re right and Im wrong, happy?"<

I don't care to be right or wrong. I just want you to understand. That's all.

Sean

_____________________________________________________________

This is the last email in its entirety from Mina which I have not had time to respond to yet:

>"Actually I made another one, for a mexican guy, but when I knew what for, I decided that was my worst work... He´s girlfriend is going to leave and study in another place, and he thinks he´ll keep her there showin´ her how much he loves her... I mean no one can keep you i a place that you don´t want to be, or even decide that you should stay and throwing for the gunwale your future, that´s not right, that´s egotist...


"I don't care to be right or wrong. I just want you to understand. That's all."

Ok I do, what you want from me? it was a sarcastic way to say some things, that doesn´t means that I don´t understand your point...you assumed it... ok? just to make it clear, I never EVER thought you were some kind of megalomaniac, I just wanted to say that... That never changed... If we look back I always said that you are more than that, and I still think that, ever after our "discussion"
"<

!

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."- George Orwell

London After Midnight website